“As a player I never had sleepless nights. As a manager, I do. I woke up one night and my heart-rate was 189. Had to go to hospital. Panic attack. It's unbelievable the stress" Henry Winter speaks to Robbie Savage about the toll of management

Robbie Savage needed some reassurance and guidance when Forest Green Rovers struggled earlier this season. His old Wales team-mate, Craig Bellamy, phoned with some advice. Typically, Bellamy didn’t sugar-coat it.

“Craig rang me when I was on that losing run,” Savage recalls. “I felt anxious, vulnerable when we were losing. Craig said to me, ‘no disrespect, but this is what you know.’ ‘What do you mean?!’ ‘This is you. As a player, you did unbelievably.

"But the majority of your career, you weren’t challenging for trophies, you were surviving. You left Manchester United – and had to fight. In games, you fought, fought for the team. So take it into management. Fight. This is you, this is where you now thrive’.”

Vegan lunch and table tennis

Savage, 51, knew Bellamy was right. He turned to his old strengths that had driven his career: fighting and proving doubters wrong. Forest Green need only a point from three games to confirm their place in the National League play-offs (while Halifax need a mathematical miracle).

Sitting in his office at the loud and lively training ground just off the M5 last week, Savage is smiling after a wholesome vegan lunch in the canteen, winning a table tennis game, a good run of results and the stream of staff and players coming in to see him.

One group had all failed the crossbar challenge and had to draw cards in front of Savage to see who bought the biscuits for the next away trip. Savage needs company and needs validation. “Insecurity drives me,” he explains. “I will never lose that insecurity.”

The reason is nearby. A photo of United’s youth team, including the Class of 92, is propped up prominently on a shelf opposite his desk. “That picture is the reminder every single day that I was let go, wasn't good enough, that I’ve got a point to prove, whether as a player, whether as a media (pundit and presenter), whether as a manager. At times, I've been made to feel vulnerable, isolated, embarrassed. For instance, the World Cup.”

Savage’s mind rewinds to being on a BBC panel in 2014 with Clarence Seedorf, Thierry Henry and Gary Lineker. Lineker tweeted a photo of the pundits. “There was a picture of all their trophies on their shirts,” Savage recalls. There were four Champions Leagues amongst 10 trophies superimposed on Seedorf and a World Cup and 10 other trophies on Henry. “Mine was ‘one League Cup’. It was pre-planned. I felt embarrassed. I had imposter syndrome anyway, that I shouldn't have been there, the World Cup, even though I play for my country.” It just made him even more determined. “Some people who don't know me want me to fail. They think of me the player.”

Savage was a feisty, competitive central midfielder for Crewe, Leicester, Birmingham, Blackburn, Derby and for Wales on 39 occasions. He often riled rival fans, who haven’t forgotten. “That tribalism,” he says.

Along with his extensive media work, Savage moved into coaching at Macclesfield before leaving for Forest Green last summer. He was accused of being disloyal to Macc. “I’m loyal! Whoever I've worked for. Daily Mirror 15 years. ‘606’ 15 years. TNT/BT Sport eight years. Macclesfield four and a half years.”

He pauses, running through his memories.

“Man United, I had a great time there. But I wasn't a Man United player, because I never made the first team. Leicester, I gave everything, Player of the Year twice. One trophy. I showed loyalty to Leicester, but when they got relegated, I got a phone call to say, ‘Listen, you're an asset. We've gone down. Somebody's bid for you, would you go?’ So I said, ‘no problem’. I would have stayed, but it was best for the club, and for me, I moved on.”

He moved to Birmingham and showed Leicester fans exactly where his allegiances lay when he played them in December 2003. “I kissed the badge because my mentality was when I got booed, I'll show you. I’m instinctive. Sometimes I'd say something and then think, ‘oh, boy, what have I done that for’. Paolo Maldini’s shirt.” He threw the Italian legend’s shirt away for the TV cameras before an international. “Because I want to please.” And occasionally wind up. “Graeme Souness chased me down the tunnel at Birmingham once (in 2004). I told him he was fifth choice for the Newcastle job!” I want to show people at the club I'm at that I'm all in.”

He re-appraises one opinion. “I also know what it’s like to be disloyal - at Birmingham.” He agitated for a move to Blackburn in 2005. “I pushed that,” he acknowledges. At the time, Savage claimed that he wanted to be closer to his poorly parents in Wrexham. There was two miles’ difference. “I was idolised at Birmingham. Because of what I'd given for the club. But I wanted to go and play for Mark Hughes. I earned more money, let’s be totally realistic.” He moved on after three years. “I went to Derby - Nigel Clough is great.

“Blackburn and Derby are the two sets of fans who welcome me back. Otherwise, every club I seem to leave, whether I’ve been loyal or disloyal, there’s a tendency not to like me. It does hurt. I should be going back to Birmingham as a club legend. I couldn't walk out at the King Power. Some would applaud, but the majority wouldn't.

“At Macclesfield, I gave them four and a half years of my life, putting that club before my family. Now, there's no loyalty. I’m hated there. It's quite strong, right? Just because I left. I should have been able to go to the Brentford game (in the FA Cup), stand there and get applauded. I can’t go back to a club I put my heart and soul into. I didn't get a wage, by the way. I sold my shares, and there was a financial gain from that. It affected my health, affected my family. It was horrific.

“I feel there's an injustice because of what I did for Macc. Rob's money (the owner Rob Smethurst) saved them but I was there every day and built a club. People think I want them to fail. I don't, they're doing brilliantly well. John Rooney - brilliant. Crystal Palace (the FA Cup win) brilliant. I'm proud of that, but I have to go to the next stage, which is here.”

Why Forest Green? Savage points across a couple of fields and a road to where Eco Park, the new stadium, will be built. “I want to be in there with this club. It's unbelievable. My ambition is to manage high with Forest Green. I want to repay them here because they’ve given me a chance. Where the owner Dale (Vince) has been brilliant is in (saying), ‘if you finish 15th, don’t worry. I've asked you to create me an entertaining, dynamic style of football with young players. I know it takes two, three years.’ And he’s a man of his word. Dale's massively humble. He’s got where he is through hard work. I’d call him a friend, and respect. If I left here, I’d look him in the eye and say ‘thank you’.

“Do I think I can manage in the Championship? Yes. I listen to Gary Neville and Roy Keane on ‘The Overlap’ (with Paul Merson in February), saying, I'm doing it the hard way, doing a good job. Jermain Defoe’s just gone into Woking. Massive respect. Subconsciously, he might think, ‘I can start higher’. But this is the way to do it. Ashley Cole. Gone to Cesena.” Learning their trade.

“I had two or three opportunities in the EFL which weren’t right for me. Any time someone has linked me with a job, I've rung the owner. I'm happy. I want to get us into the league. He's given me an opportunity when some chairman might have been scared of my personality and image.

“We've got a decent budget, yes, because the owner wants to progress. Look at Rochdale, York, Southend. These teams have two, three years to build. We're here in the play-offs within seven months. We don't get enough credit. Almost every manager I come across says ‘brave’ because I've ripped up a squad that finished third under a manager (Steve Cotterill) who's managed 1,000 games.” (Cotterill’s side faltered in the play-off semi-finals to Southend last year).

His successor has just given a presentation to Rovers players about last Friday’s opponents. Savage goes through Brackley’s last six formations, their pressing and where the goalkeeper likes to pass, often to the right. Savage instructs his left centre-back to cover across to support his full-back. “When you see Monday Night Football, this is what they do, but not as much detail. And people say on the radio, ‘he doesn't know what he's talking about’. I do. It does bother me.” His team beat Brackley 4-0.

“The biggest thing for me is when I see pundits on TV be a bit confrontational, saying a manager ‘should have done this’, ‘should have done that’. I was guilty of that as a pundit when I was younger, to try and get your foot on it (the media ladder). They’ve got no idea. Until you’ve walked in these shoes as a manager, whatever level, it's massive pressure.”

He's been booked seven times this season, the latest in taking the rap for an outburst by a member of his coaching staff who the officials couldn’t identify. “And not one's been for foul and abusive language. Don't believe in it. All my staff, if they swear, internal fine. It’s a hard job for the fourth official, but all these yellow cards? For celebrating goals, and leaving my technical area to defend my players after terrible challenges.”

Detailing the pressures of his job, Savage relates a story of how preparation for a Saturday game at Gateshead was complicated by off-field events. “Friday morning, had a phone call from a player – in hospital, ill. The next night, a player’s grandma died. A player’s father had a heart attack.” Savage showed compassion, made changes, and won the game 2-0.

Trailing 2-1 at half-time at Eastleigh, Savage addressed the players. “I don't like standing up in front of people. I've got to deliver a team talk. Our fans are amazing, but there's a little portion that when we’re getting beat 2-1 at Eastleigh, it’s ‘you don't know what you're doing’.” Savage changed four players and won 4-2. “What I’m very good at is I know football. I know what a game needs.”

He needs victory. “My life is about three points on the Saturday. I can’t lose. It’s that competitive side. Even at table tennis! You’ve just seen! If you lose the game, and you haven't made the right subs, the bus journeys home are horrific. I've heard people say, ‘you've got to stay constant’. I can't. Those wins mean so much, and I want those highs, and the lows are so low it’s horrific.

“Then the missus (Sarah) phones and you don't want to speak. Then I worry about Charlie (his son who plays for Reading). How has he got on? I'll drive home to Manchester, home nine, 10 o'clock.” Can he then relax with Sarah? “No, too wired. I'm looking at every interview, watch ‘Match of the Day’. Because I've got 606 (the Radio 5 Live phone-in he co-hosts) on Sunday. I've got to get up to speed.

“I don’t really see her, and that’s the hardest thing. That sacrifice. When we were younger, we could move round, having a family, Leicester, Birmingham, went to Manchester when I was Blackburn. Derby, I travelled. Now she's older, and she's got all her friends in Manchester. As a manager, if I sign a four-year contract, it might be nine months. So she said, ‘Listen, with the vulnerability of a manager, I'm going to stay here’. Still together. I go back when I can. When I first started going home, we used to go for walks. But I was on my phone.

“As a player I never had sleepless nights. As a manager, I do. A couple of times I woke up and the bedsheet is ringing in sweat. It’s not healthy. At Macclesfield, I woke up one night and my heart-rate was 189. Had to go to hospital. Panic attack. It's unbelievable the stress. Failure drives me on to be better. Winning is just a relief.”

Defeats stay with him. “I go back to Carlisle, two last-minute goals (to lose 4-2 in October). That drives me.” And with Macc last season. “Ashton away. Leek at home.” He doesn’t forget.

“I work tirelessly. I'm dedicated, as a player, as a manager. I'll never talk about my career. I mentioned it once when somebody asked me the other day, what did I do before a game.” So Savage told them a surprising story. “I told them that when I played against Roy Keane or Patrick Vieira in the Premier League, I’d think I was the best player on the pitch. That was my mentality. It was, ‘I’m going to make sure I'm better than you today’. I told them (his Forest Green players), ‘You’ve got to think that here.’

“As a manager you are reliant on players. If you haven’t got a good dressing-room, you’ve had it. People knew as a player when I was sulking because of my body language. Now when I come into work in the morning, I have to put on an act. You can't show your emotion.”

He understands the frustration of those not in the team. “I’d be one of the worst in the dressing room when the manager wasn’t picking me. I’d have been the loudest one.” He talks to Charlie, 22. “I’ve got lots of players his age. I try and learn off my son.” Savage is “disappointed, devastated” that Wales didn’t qualify for the World Cup “especially as Charlie has an opportunity in the future”. He already has two caps.

One of Savage’s 22-year-old players is Jili Buyabu, a wing-back on loan from Sheffield United, talented but with a hectic family life. Buyabu sits down in Savage’s office and relates how his partner went into labour early, and how he delivered the baby at home. “Family comes first,” Savage tells him.

A beaming Buyabu heads off. “I love being around people,” Savage continues. “These lads are keeping me young. They don't want to leave for the day. They love it here. That's what we've created. There is jealousy of us as a club. Songs get sung about us, stuff online. But you see the club, what we're doing. We're ahead of our time.”

His experienced director of football, Mark Bowen, soon walks in, liaising with Savage about the team. “Mark’s great for me. I listen to Mark. I listen to my staff. I listen to psychologists. I’m just trying to gain knowledge.” He rings Sean Dyche – “Dychy’s been great” – David Moyes, Mark Hughes and Martin O’Neill for advice. “I rang Glenn Hoddle three times the other day. I was trying to find out whether he was getting the Spurs job!”

Savage laughs and looks around. “We're in the Cotswolds, beautiful part of the world, good people, great owner. I’m in a good place now.”